Star Wars: The Old Republic

[EHW]

Well, it's officially the only MMO with subscription fees I'm likely to stick to playing for quite a long period of time, but still: SWTOR is, IMO, amazing. I'm not 100% committed to it, as it has bugs, but hopefully an expansion pack will be out before it gets too boring.

I'm currently on Rogue Moon server, with the characters Eido Val, Powertech and Par'zi Val, Jedi Sage. Yeah, the account legacy is Val, so I'm trying to fit my names into it. I'm not brilliant or anything, but I'm playing for the sake of roleplaying, rather than any powergaming. I'm also planning on setting up either a Jedi Sentinel or a Sith Warrior (not chosen specialization) in the near future, so if anyone is planning on playing on Rogue Moon, send me a message.

Just wondering if anyone else got it - it's amazing, but the party options when you have a group of fun-friends is a much better way to play then to simply go solo all the time. If you have got it, and manage to find time to come on here, leave your character names and classes, and maybe your server too.

[EHW]

So, it's been almost a year since I made this topic, but since it's page 1 and like, the 5th last "updated" topic in the Gamers' Corner, I felt I ought to reply to it rather than start a new one for the self-same game.

Anyway, so I went back to SWTOR, using an F2P account so I could run some different characters. That, and I chose not to subscribe for a good length of time because I didn't have time after Christmas, and then afterwards I just couldn't be bothered. Especially when I heard it was going F2P anyway.

The F2P model is a bit odd, IMO. All the areas are unlocked, as is the entire storyline, which is what Bioware boasts is the best part, and the majority of people agree to. The locked things are however, the PVP, which is limited to 3 a week; the end-game instances, which are limited to 3 a week; the top-end gear is unable to be equipped; you aren't able to hide your headslot; you cannot colour-match your clothes with things like dyes; and you cannot obtain every quest reward. Effectively, you have the MSO experience SWTOR is in general, but it restricts the multiplayer aspects until they're basically useless.

I'm currently running a Trooper, specced to be a Commando, which is effectively a combination of DPS w/ off-healing; and my other character (only 2 per account w/ F2P) is a Smuggler, which is currently unspecced due to the fact I'm about 30-45 minutes of gameplay away from completing the starter area so I can actually choose a specialisation.

I have to say, one year on, that it's unsurprising it went free-to-play. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, and I love the voice-acting. However, for an MMO which cost over $100million, it's very... safe. The only "risk" that Bioware/ EA took with it was using good voice-acting for every NPC and PC so that the game supposedly feels "alive". Except it doesn't, not really. The problem with trying to make it so that every person can make their own story in the MMO, is that the game doesn't really react to your character. Here's a good example: on the planet (starting area) which the Trooper and Smuggler use, there is an NPC who has been captured and is then released by you.
Now, your character can either kill him for Dark Side alignment and money, or let him go and he is then rescued, resulting in Light Side alignment and money. I'm not sure which gives you more money, but the alignment gain is the same for either choice, so it's more a case of Dark or Light side. Basically, this means that you can choose what happens to this NPC, who is admittedly a scumbag who murders for a laugh. But as soon as you're done, he's alive again in his cell, because everyone else needs to be able to make the same choice.

It's not KOTOR 3-10, despite what Bioware/EA implied and in a way, promised us. In KOTOR 1 & 2, I felt like my actions mattered, as the world altered to fit my choices. In SWTOR, due to its MMO status, my actions only matter in terms of determining such things as possible reward or alignment, nothing more. The storylines are sweet, or at least, some of them are. I do like the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter storylines, and the Trooper is pretty cool too. But then you get stuff like the Jedi Consular storyline, and it falls flat. The idea is that your PC, as a Consular, is a Jedi looking for ancient artifacts. Wow... so cool, NOT.

It's good for what it is, and that is an F2P Online RPG with a fairly rich storyline and little restrictions which affect said storyline. It's just not a good MMO. Plus, the problem now is the game genre: MMORPG. That implies massively multiplayer online roleplaying game. But it isn't. Depending on the title, it's either a RPG which is online but is singleplayer, or it's an MMO game, but it's less RPG, more grindfest as every class' story is the same.

I think that I'm a) still disappointed that it isn't KOTOR 3, as that would have been a better title, though perhaps not as lucrative; and b) that the developers just don't care about it enough. Point in turn: EA/Bioware laid off their upper tier staff, and then shoved development aside when SWTOR desperately needs anything. Things such as new content, from races and classes to completely new DLC and endgame content would not go amiss.
But no, instead, ME3 got a bazillion new multiplayer classes and maps, as well as a few DLC, while SWTOR has stagnated. And it's just disappointing. Especially since they got rid of Galaxies, which from what I'd heard had actually been on the rise in terms of numbers for a while when it was shutdown contrary to their original word, so now SWTOR is a disappointing and lonely representative for Star Wars MMOs. And it's responsible for causing people to think it might be the death of the subscription based game completely, when in actual fact it's because Bioware couldn't be bothered to create new content or even patches. Case in point? A year on from release, and they just released patch 1.6, and apparently there is still major issues in the mid-to late game content.

So yeah. Anyway, I'm on the European English PVE server, because while I like roleplaying the chat restriction (only 1 message per 2 minutes in general chat) really stops that from working out well, so I'm just RPing as and when I can in the PVE server. So if you do want to talk to me, that's where I am. My character names are Par'zi (Yes, my Trooper has my old Consular's name) and Drayke, so if either of them are online, that's me controlling them. Provided you let me know who you are (and say you're such-and-such from Aisen), we can talk and maybe even play together. Who knows?

[Doru]

Damn, one message every two minutes? It sounds like they're giving you just enough to play the game and sample a bit of the features that make an mmo fun so you'll subscribe. Well I wouldn't actually know much about MMO's as DC Universe Online is the only MMO I've played, what I can say in it's favor though and the only reason I've spent money on it is they actually release new powers and what not. That sucks to hear SWTOR isn't doing it, I've wanted to try it since I saw the trailers...

[EHW]

So once again, I'm updating this topic, this time it's from August.

I forgot my account name and password combination and EAware refused to give me a new password, so I'm on a new account. Purchased some Cartel Coins, or the F2P market money so you can by unlockables or cosmetics which you otherwise couldn't. You know, the usual. This made me Premium, so now I get slightly better reception from the game, some better starting support and 6 character slots as opposed to 2. Considering that the smallest cartel coin purchase is worth £3 or $5, it's not a bad drop in the bucket to get some serious benefits.

Premium isn't any different from F2P though - I'm still punished for not subbing with a exp deficit; no speeder/ mount access until Lvl 25 (halfway through the base levels) and a whopping 25000k in a game where the conventional item drop has a sale price of around about 10, and you spend that much on base repairs as it is. Not to mention that without either purchasing certain things from the Cartel Market or by being a sub, you can't really get any decent gear so a lot of money goes towards optimising your performance as much as possible. All I really get is more character slots; level 1 Sprint (which is the only movement skill which isn't a mount and isn't available for F2P until Lvl 15); 4 skillbars which makes the game playable; and a slightly higher server status to f2p-ers in terms of connection and being kicked from the server due to connection. Still, it's worth dropping the $5/ £3 on SWTOR if you want to play it, if only due to the sprint access, the character limits being less restraining and the skillbars.

The biggest problem with the game though, is that the Hero Engine is absolute cr*p. That and the fact that it ought to have had an offline mode, where the multiplayer was obviously restricted but thus allowing low-end connection players to experience the fun. I'd pay for that feature straight up, if only because there are 8 separate stories without specialisations and LS/DS choices. It's a sodding joke which is very disappointing tbh, though if you have a laptop younger than... oh, I dunno, five years old, you'll be able to run it fine, albeit with potential lag spikes here and there. I'm currently using something older and therefore due to my lack of subscriber status I don't get enough priority during the day, so I'm restricted to 9PM - ?AM for my play.

Still on the Red Eclipse - that's the European English PVE server. This time I'm rolling a Bounty Hunter (specialised as a Mercenary) and a Sith Inquisitor (specialised as a Sith Sorcerer). Yes, hail the Sith Empire atm. I have 4 slots free, and I'm definitely picking up a Sith Warrior and a Trooper in future - I enjoyed the Trooper and the Sith Warrior is a more fun (cause Dark Side has cookies) version of the Jedi Knight, which is also quite fun to use.

So to recap:
Premium is F2P with added features and access to the in-game store.
Premium is cheap and practically essential for SWTOR. $5/ £3 is a very good price, especially since you can purchase an account wide inventory unlock of 10 slots, bring the inventory total to 40. Not necessary but v. nice option for your points.
Subscribing is worth it only if you plan to either a) play nonstop for a period of time, or b) you have money burning a hole in your pocket and you're insane enough to add SWTOR to that list of subscriptions.
Currently on Red Eclipse Euro English Server. Look for Orkay or Vikori to find yours truly.

[Doru]

Post some screens of your characters!

I tried the game once when I was looking through f2p games but i got lost at the beginning and decided to stop for my lack of a mouse. Kinda want to get back to it though at one time so hearing that a $5 drop makes the game better sounds good.

[EHW]

On screenshots: to feasibly play SWTOR on my own laptop (read: not someone else's, which I could do in a pinch, but probably only for about an hour or so); I have to run it on lowest end graphics. It's still better looking than the majority of titles out there, but it means that I don't exactly know just how my characters look - I can only guess based on the dodgy graphics setting. I have seen awful looking characters in low graphics look amazingly good on higher settings.

In other words, no - not on this laptop with this software.

It is a good model for what it was advertised for. Story. And the gameplay purposely makes sure that the story is completely open to everyone. But it is unforgiving - a lot of people don't understand that the F2P model means that they need to grind harder than everyone else to meet the requirements, and asking for help all the time is both annoying and shows you don't have any respect for your fellow players. I have seen people on the third planet, or area, at level 13. The low-end mobs have a minimum level of 16, and all the quests are Level 16+, and you cannot pick up quests more than 2 levels higher than your own level. In other words, they're stupid and don't know how MMOs work, but these sorts of people make up a considerably large portion of the population when you consider that the game is an MMO.

[EHW]

Cynical McF*ckface here, dropping more information on SWTOR.

So, first off, let's get this out of the way: they've just updated the game with Update 2.4. It's a major update as opposed to a bullsh*t weekly patch which takes longer to implement than it does to deal with the problems it supposedly removes. Having never come across a single problem listed by each weekly patch, and getting online for a good six-ish weeks each time I've installed the game, I have trouble feeling like the time is warranted. That said, at least it's done during American 12AM - 7AM or something, which is effectively the middle of the day. On a Thursday. So the middle of my week - no MMOs for you, EHW.

Anyway, I believe the new shiny update made Sprint a Lvl 10 thing, much more manageable 'cause that's when it's starts being noticeably slower without it, and gave you some basic stuff to make the game just that much easier to get around in. Since it is essentially some Star Wars themed instances disguised as planets, and on those instances they have smaller versions to make it easier for the game to load/ so 50 people aren't fighting over a single enemy for their grinding, this makes a lot of sense to me.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't address something which I feel is a major f*cking issue. There is no cosmetic system in the game. Considering that when we compare SWTOR to other vaguely successful F2PMMOs, I inevitably look at LOTRO, D&DO and GW2, this does become a bit of an issue. One of the biggest charming qualities of LOTRO which kept me coming back until my computer crashed and took itself out a while ago (not the last one, the computer before that), was that I could wear the stupidest looking gear which conferred the best stats, and yet my appearance was based on a cosmetic outfit which I could completely customise with dyes and items which were otherwise completely pants and not worth using. It made my Hobbit Guardian less of a chainmail-wearing twat, and more of a cutesy warrior dedicated to protecting his home, while wearing a stylish guild outfit I had designed for my guild. It made me feel quite important.

In SWTOR, you get orange or purple items. The game scales item quality in the following increments: grey, white, green, blue, orange, purple, darker purple. I'll explain each colour in degrees of importance in the following paragraphs. This is not a list of increasing usefulness, just how important it is for your character to have it.

Grey stuff is all junk and the only armour in the game which is that colour is your starting gear, which is discarded instantly or at least by level 3 for an entire set of greens and the odd white trousers or shoes or something. Other than that, it's all basic loot drops which are only useful for sale. Seems pointless alongside the money drops which are also a thing, but hey - not my game.

Whites are effectively greys, though this also encompasses your basic healing items. You have a basic Out-Of-Combat heal skill with zero recharge, but these are the only surefire method of healing in-combat no matter what your class is. They do however, only work on you, and not your companions or allies.

Dark purple is legendary gear for the truly brilliant/ sad people who have been playing for far too long on their old characters, and like to show off by talking down to every new player on the starting planets while standing around on their max level alt looking like a right pillock. I'm not talking the helpful folk who like to try to help anyone struggling with handy advice, I'm talking the ones too busy looking at their e-peen to consider that maybe it's not worth £9 a month when you can get more content on less expensive subscription models.

Greens are your generic stat-boosting gear. Since practically everything boosts stats in this game, as that's practically the only way to increase your stats, these are a dime a dozen and often only useful for a) selling to the NPCs; b) selling to the idiots on the trade market; c) equipping on your companion 'cause you don't care about their gear often enough. Sometimes though a Green is needed - cause your previous gear is much worse.

Blues are your more advanced stat-boosting gear. Same standard affair as with greens, only this is as good as it gets in many areas for the non-Subs, due to the way that Bioware alienated non-subs from the best gear, even on grind-a-thons.

Purples are subscriber-only/ purchase-only gear. They are able to be obtained by anyone, but only those with the correct "authorisation" i.e. real money purchase, can use them. It is however, effectively the best gear in the game, it's just restricted to a fairly small part of the population now that most people are F2P.

Oranges are your meat of the equipment you want. Oranges in particular are modifiable pieces of equipment, and since their basic stats are the generic lvl 1 armour statistics of that armour type, so Light has 10 armour and so on; all oranges are effectively modifiable cosmetic pieces. Only the best looking ones come with high-level modifications which either a) need to be removed or b) force you to wait forever to hit Lvl X until you can wear it. For example: I want some badass Fett-style armour for my Bounty Hunter. Jango or Boba, I'm not fussed. To get this, I either have to a) get lucky in my 5-a-week PVP matches to scrounge up enough alternative PVP income to purchase the lower level stuff or b) wait for god knows how long to get a higher level version.

And before you ask, the only way to acquire a high-level piece before that level is to purchase it off the auction-house, because the NPCs won't sell you stuff higher level than your character. And since to remove the modifications takes a sh*t-ton o' money relative to the level of the mods you are removing, something which was Lvl 41-ish gear will probably cost you about 12-20K to remove those high level mods. Or you can simply place lower level ones over the existing mods, but that deletes the old mods forever, which you might not wish to do for those high end mods.

The final method is the craftsman because Bioware added every orange a crafting recipe, so no doubt some Johnny Noname has got one character on his account constantly crafting stuff. Unfortunately, some inherent problems. 1) To craft properly, you need 3 crafting skills. Only subscribers get this, or guys who pay for a crafting skillbar, so everyone else has to use the auctionhouse to get a hold of those materials they need. 2) Armormech (which is the armour-crafting skill for all non-Jedi/Sith) effectively needs 4 crafting skills, not including the recipe-finding skill, to be pulled off successfully. So these two issues make it practically impossible for a non-Sub to do this, and since Subscribers are the only ones who currently have unlimited PVP, they don't care all that much about these issues.

The final problem? Anyone who makes that orange you desperately want has no doubt put it on the auctionhouse without taking out the mods. Now, I don't like criticising the auctionhouse in MMOs, cause generally it's my fault rather than the system's which makes it awful. SWTOR though is stupid. The global economy works like this: one guy will make/ find something, and put it on the market with a price which is really just too high for anyone who wants that gear is prepared to pay for it. Next some guy will place a half dozen of the self-same item as the first guy at the same time, only cheaper. This continues as you'd expect until someone crashes the market on that item because it's now a steal. And then the process begins again.

With the orange gear which is ultimately just cosmetic, you'd think someone would have sussed this out by now, and rather than placing that gear on the market for a ridiculous price, they could take out the mods and place it on there for a half or third of that cost. Why? Because no-one wants to spend 30K+ on a piece of armour and then a further 10K removing the mods from it so they can use it. Since the guys making this stuff spend probably about... 5-10K on the reusable schematic, and maybe 1K tops on the materials necessary to make the damn thing, they just need to sell 2 - 3 of them mod-free to make an easy and sizeable profit. And of course, since the schematic is the major buyer's problem, the profit only increases as you sell more.

Instead, I'm expected to be willing to shell out 400K for a piece of Revan's robes from the official Revan artwork. Not the entire robe, just the chest up with the hood. The mask itself goes for a whopping 600K minimum at the best of times. Best part? This stuff is completely mod free, so my dream is somewhat realised, just in a really sh*te way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough chronic whining, character update.

Orkay, my Bounty Hunter with Mercenary specialisation, is currently three-quarters of the way through Alderaan, the final planet of the Chapter 1 (of 3) and is on a comfortable Level 31. Not bad for a character with an XP-gain rate of 75%.
Vikori, my Sith Inquisitor with Sorcerer specialisation, is currently starting Tatooine and is a much-enjoyed Level 27. Tatooine is a Lvl 24 - 28 zone (supposedly) so this is a major improvement. Must be the fact that other than the Main Class Story its the same content.
Val'okin, my ****y Smuggler with Scoundrel specialisation, is starting Coruscant and is on Level 13.
Andvar, my Trooper turned Commando, is also starting Coruscant, and is Level 12, almost 13.

Three things:
One, the Empire has cooler classes IMO. Both Sith are superior to their Jedi counterparts in terms of story, and since they are essentially the same class just on opposite sides, this makes it 2-0 up to the Empire. The Imperial Agent is easily the best class to play as story-wise, for either side, so the Empire already have the Sith over Jedi advantage and the best class story. The Republic has the Smuggler and Trooper to attempt to pick up the slack for the Republic, but their best efforts cannot dislodge the potency that is the IA storyline.

Two, the reason I don't currently HAVE an Imperial Agent is because my game glitched when I was rolling one. I couldn't pick a specialisation, which is necessary in the same way that the upgrade from basic Soldier to Jedi Knight is necessary in KOTOR1. So I've been putting off rolling one until I can get an appearance that fits the tone and personality of the class, and also making sure that I don't get that same glitch again.

Three, I don't have a Sith Warrior because while that's the one I want of the three classes I'm left with for my final slot (that's both Jedi and Sith Warrior), I haven't got the time to run through the Sith Warrior storyline. The trouble is that the Force characters are very similar for their sides - both Jedi are looking to uphold the Order, and the Sith the same but for the glory of the Sith. Meanwhile the Smuggler and Trooper couldn't be more different, and the same applies to the Agent and Bounty Hunter. So running them side-by-side makes for fundamentally different stories, and since that's the only reason to roll an alt on this game, it's good to choose the different feeling stories, even if some of the classes feel interchangeable.

[EHW]

Quick Update on SWTOR:

So I stopped playing SWTOR about two months ago, give or take a week. It's not because it was difficult, but it got boring. The "grind" is the meat of an MMO, and SWTOR's grind is quite long-winded. It isn't LOTRO, that's for sure, and since LOTRO has a nicer system which isn't boring to grind in... well, you get the point.

Anyway, I've seen the update trailer: 12 vs 12 PVP dogfights. How... uninspired. And heck, this isn't even a cost-effective update. If they honestly wanted to make an enjoyable yet highly cost effective Star Wars dogfighting simulator, then they should produce a SW-themed version of Warthunder, for crying out loud. Market it at, I dunno... £40 or $60 if they wish to make it multi-platform. Then they could ditch the poor support of SWTOR and due to focus, actually produce something worth playing. I dunno - maybe the **** SWTOR fans will find it fun, but I just feel like it's a waste of a good idea.

[Crimson Curse]

Tell me something. For someone looking for a F2P MMO, would you recommend this or Age of Conan? I cannot afford a subscription right now, so I'm gonna have to make do with free content. I'm actually more inclined towards the latter, as I know absolutely nothing about SW:TOR; then again, I don't know jack about AoC as well, but I have researched a bit about it. While we're on that front, have you played AoC? If yes, I'd love to hear your opinions on it.

[EHW]

I've not actually played AoC, but I haven't heard much wrong with it. That said, according to most of what I've heard - it's a game in which you really need to know and enjoy the Conan universe to enjoy it. I have watched some gameplay footage and related videos though, so I can give a basic rundown between it and SWTOR.

Gameplay: AoC wins here, hands down. SWTOR is a simple "press key to attack game", with nothing really happening other than numbers coming off the enemies' health. AoC is a thinking man's game - you need to prepare combos and attack at certain points, and the enemy can actually defend against certain attacks. It's not a perfect combat system, but it's much less monotonous.

Graphics: Neither truly win it over for me. On the one hand, SWTOR has a nice crisp graphical display if you can manage to play it on something with good graphical options. AoC has much more to display in that regard, but the worse your graphical situation the more... disappointing it could be.

Story: I think that SWTOR wins hands down here. SWTOR is all about the story, don't believe otherwise. The story is the only thing which sets it apart from being a Star Wars WoW clone, and if you want to play WoW, play WoW, not SWTOR. I've not heard much about AoC, but due to the lore of its universe I'd assume it can't really rival SWTOR in story. That said, not an expert.

Content: Pretty sure that neither game wins here. SWTOR's base game content is available to everyone, and the game can be completed up to and including the Level 50 content with the F2P restrictions and no micro-transaction purchases. Though I would buy something, if only to make yourself a Premium player, the benefits of which are listed in an earlier post.

AoC has content up to Level 80, and apparently has enough to cut your teeth on so you can decide whether or not you want to play it further. Unfortunately, while SWTOR is F2P, AoC is more Free2Try - most of the end-game content is apparently locked out to F2P players, though considering this is Level 80, by this point you'll probably be someone paying if you enjoy it that much.

Cost: Since it's an F2P comparison, we have to accept that micro-transactions and subscriptions make the games easier. And assuming we accept this premise, then the most cost effective of AoC or SWTOR is... WoW. Why? WoW has the same subscription fees as the other two, but due to the longevity can pretty much beat out any other MMO in cost-effectiveness. Of the two... probably AoC, but I'm not sure how fast the leveling IS. Simply put: SWTOR's grind makes you drag your feet if a non-subscriber with reduced EXP, and to reach level 10 in solo-mode takes you about three - five hours if you wanna listen to all the voice-acting and cutscenes; AoC's could get you from Level 1 - 25 in eight hours for all I know.

Space: SWTOR is smaller and more compact, while AoC is apparently one of the few games which can give WoW a run for its money in file size.

Overall: Try AoC. It may not be a game I know much about, but it looks great from what I've seen. If it isn't to your liking, try SWTOR afterwards. If THAT isn't to your liking, and you still wish to play a F2P MMO, then try out either DDO or LOTRO, because Turbine's F2P model works, even if you have to grind quests to collect the shop currency, you can still technically buy everything without paying any real money.

[Crimson Curse]

That's a very good analysis. Thanks a lot. I'm not worried about the graphics. I got a new laptop back in May, and it can run most games on their highest settings. While I never had any plans to try SWTOR, if I am not satisfied with AoC, I'll be sure to give that a try. Again, thanks.