Athiesm.

[Sonic]

Hi. I was just wondering what Athiests think about how the world came to be and stuff, because my Theology class has me thinking about lots of things. And im curious about Athiests' ideas.

[Paul the Abstinence Panther]

Well, the Atheistic view of the universe's creation is pretty similar to the religious idea of an always-existent God: no human can really wrap their head around it. However, I'll try to sum up my layman's understanding of creation.

String theory is pretty much the idea that everything in existence is made up of one-dimensional loops. There are LOTS and LOTS of dimensions total made up of these, and smaller and smaller particles can behave in ways that are affected by these upper dimensions in ways that we can't, and will never, understand. Our universe is one of an infinite number of creations possible, but since we only observe our world in three dimensions, we only see one of these creations.

Also, there's the possibility that all the matter that makes up our universe came from a "white hole," an output for all the matter sucked up from a universe on the same upper dimension's black hole.

I can't concentrate right now, so that's all for now.

[Sonic]

There had to be some sort of a "Primary Mover" though. Something that put everything into motion, a white hole sucking up all the matter defies Newton's first law of motion, stating "An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an unbalanced force" The white hole / big bang theory doesn't make much sense really.

[Paul the Abstinence Panther]

The whole idea is that there isn't a need for a primary mover, since every possibility exists. There is a universe that is filled with absolutely nothing, and a universe that's filled with solid matter. Every single possibility exists, many of them wouldn't even have Newtonian physics.

[Night]

What happened to the good old "Matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed but changed from one form to another"

I mean, I understand the evolution/big bang/other theories... but no matter how long ago it all started it must have had an origin of creation.. Something has had to be created to start the universe... And the only person I know awesome enough to created semi-inifnite paradoxes and atoms from scratch.. is god..

[Paul the Abstinence Panther]

What happened to the good old "Matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed but changed from one form to another"

I mean, I understand the evolution/big bang/other theories... but no matter how long ago it all started it must have had an origin of creation.. Something has had to be created to start the universe... And the only person I know awesome enough to created semi-inifnite paradoxes and atoms from scratch.. is god..

My point in saying that some universes would have non-Newtonian physics was that in some universes, matter COULD be created or destroyed. Every single possibility does exist.

Also, if everything had to have an origin, what is God's origin? When did God begin? And if he has always been there, what's to say that the infinite dimensions and the matter inside them haven't been there forever instead?

[Night]

My point in saying that some universes would have non-Newtonian physics was that in some universes, matter COULD be created or destroyed. Every single possibility does exist.

But that hardly applies to OUR universe, don't ya think ? So, unless you show me one of these 'univesrses' (which I actually happen to believe in them ironicly) then I will stick to my own universe.

Also, if everything had to have an origin, what is God's origin? When did God begin? And if he has always been there, what's to say that the infinite dimensions and the matter inside them haven't been there forever instead?

If God had an origin or matter that doesn't make him god.. Just another creature, Cause he would follow the simple principle of matter I stated.. So he would have no point of being called god and would be just another object. And we would be no where.

But the whole point of God, is that an infinte creature without time or space with a whole lot of power, which created all other objects, including the laws, matters, universe, planets, physics related laws, hot blond chicks who marry old rich guys, etc....

[Paul the Abstinence Panther]

But that hardly applies to OUR universe, don't ya think ? So, unless you show me one of these 'univesrses' (which I actually happen to believe in them ironicly) then I will stick to my own universe.

The fact I brought up actually DOES apply to our universe, in my opinion. Think of the first dimension, just a point. Now picture the second dimension, in the form of a line. A line marks every possible point in a certain direction. Therefore, the second dimension contains all possible values for first dimensional values. Likewise, in the third dimension, all possibilities of two-dimensional values are present.

As we can see, every dimension up contains all possible values for the previous dimension. So if we go up in dimensions until we have an entirely accurate description of everything that exists, has ever existed, and will exist in our universe. Once we go up from this dimension, the only way up is to represent ALL possible dimensions and everything that will ever occur in them. It's safe to assume that somewhere up there in the higher dimension, different laws of nature exist.

Up in these higher dimensions, it's entirely possible that changes there could affect lower dimensions. For an image, pretend you are holding out a string, viewing from the side, so that you see it in two dimensions. Then, once the string is set up, you dye half of the string red. Every point on the string within the dyed area has also been changed: every point on that string that has been dyed is now a red point.

Likewise, in the upper dimensions that governs the natural laws, any change could change our universe in ways that we (being stuck in three dimensional observation) can't see. So it's feasible that matter originally COULD be created and destroyed in our universe, and a change in an upper dimension later made it so that it couldn't. Another possibility could be explained by picturing our universe as a string in an upper dimension. If some upper dimensional interference made our "string" vibrate or move, it may have moved into an upper-dimensional area where matter could be created, and a burst of matter came through all at once before our "string" returned to its original state.

So, as you can see, my point does actually apply to our universe as well.

If God had an origin or matter that doesn't make him god.. Just another creature, Cause he would follow the simple principle of matter I stated.. So he would have no point of being called god and would be just another object. And we would be no where.

But the whole point of God, is that an infinte creature without time or space with a whole lot of power, which created all other objects, including the laws, matters, universe, planets, physics related laws, hot blond chicks who marry old rich guys, etc....

There had to be some sort of a "Primary Mover" though. Something that put everything into motion, a white hole sucking up all the matter defies Newton's first law of motion, stating "An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an unbalanced force" The white hole / big bang theory doesn't make much sense really.

Do you see the oxymoron here? If God is above time, space, and physical laws, then why can't upper dimensions of our universe? If for some reason our universe needs some sort of "Primary Mover", then why doesn't God? To say that God is unique because he is powerful enough to create everything is a bit biased, because if God can be so unique, why couldn't the upper dimensions of and Atheist universe also be unique and powerful enough to create everything we see?

[Night]

why couldn't the upper dimensions of and Atheist universe also be unique and powerful enough to create everything we see?

Then that would make the upper dimensions your god. Then that wouldn't make you an athiest....... Cause you believe in a god.. Even if you don't believe that he can comprehend/punish/reward you. You still believe you were created by a higher thing.

[Paul the Abstinence Panther]

why couldn't the upper dimensions of and Atheist universe also be unique and powerful enough to create everything we see?

Then that would make the upper dimensions your god. Then that wouldn't make you an athiest....... Cause you believe in a god.. Even if you don't believe that he can comprehend/punish/reward you. You still believe you were created by a higher thing.

Actually, it would still be quite atheist. God is an omnipotent, omniscient, supernatural being worshipped for his power. The upper dimensions of reality may be omnipotent on our plane, but since they lack one of the fundamental qualities of a god (a being), they wouldn't be considered a god.

Also, God is worshipped for his creations. The upper dimensions are not worshipped (except in the cases of a few crazy people), and they are merely used to quantify or explain everything they contain (we can't understand the higher dimensions because we live in three.) To worship a dimension would be completely ridiculous, much like worshipping the y-axis on a Cartesian graph...exactly like it, in fact.